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you’re listening to the simple growth
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podcast
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the show that helps business owners get
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their life back
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here’s your host mike callahan
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welcome back to the sa weekly talk show
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here mike callahan
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with co-host cody owen as always coming
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back to you at 1 pm eastern
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12 p.m central special guest today sean
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day
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of blue skies admin services going to be
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diving in and talking
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all things recruiting employees and how
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the recruiting game has probably changed
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here during um
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the the covid times and how some of the
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practices of recruiting
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um have either changed or uh pivoted a
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little bit during
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uh this new time to actually go out and
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get employees and i know sean really
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appreciate you coming on here but uh
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uh give you a sec to kind of induce
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yourself but i think one thing that we
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all can uh
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agree upon being in the service industry
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right now is hiring and going out and
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recruiting
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employees whether it was lawn care home
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cleaning pressure washing soft washing
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businesses
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uh was not an easy thing pre-covered and
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now
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uh there’s some extra layers of
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complexity so sean
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if people have never met you um if you
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don’t mind just give us a little
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background how you cut your teeth in the
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service industry and uh
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you know came to uh market with blue
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skies admin services
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sure so uh good to be here thanks for
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having me
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we um i i owned a cleaning company for
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about 20 years
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and about four or five years ago i told
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my wife hey let’s get this thing ready
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to sell and
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and get it ready maybe in three years
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we’ll sell it or so
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about two months after that conversation
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i sold my business to blue sky services
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uh things just rumbled into into place
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and so our strategy as as we
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consolidated blue skies was mainly at
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that time an exterior cleaning company i
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had the inside stuff
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let’s get together and do it so we ended
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up as part of our strategy buying other
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cleaning companies and what we found out
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rather quickly was we suck at recruiting
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we thought we were pretty good at
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recruiting we were no good at recruiting
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uh and what happens is you know you buy
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a company with 30 40 employees something
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like that and george has owned it for
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you know 30 years
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and george goes away to retire about
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eight or nine of
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their staff goes away because george
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goes away and kathy goes away and
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and so what we did was i said we’re
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never going to be able to execute on
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this unless
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we put a world-class automated system
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together for our own company
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so we did that we were able to grow it’s
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very unlikely that we’re short staffed
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for very long at all anymore in any
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market labor market
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and what had happened mike was we had a
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bunch of our colleagues power washing
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companies buddies and
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a lot of people i’ve known for years in
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the cleaning industry saying how are you
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doing these things
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and we scratched our head and said hey
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man there is a huge untapped
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uh niche here nobody’s helping our
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businesses our buddies out there that
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own cleaning companies power
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home service companies lawn companies
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and so we started a recruiting service
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we’ve done it for now for about
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two and a half three years and we
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service well over a hundred clients now
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and that’s how we
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we sort of stumbled our way into this
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thing
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so mike’s not yeah yeah we might have
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lost mike for a second there
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so what when you guys realized that you
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had this problem
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of like oh man we are not actually great
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at recruiting
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what were the first big hurdles that you
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guys had to jump over to make that work
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i think the first thing that i
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envisioned was
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getting it automated because you know
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when you recruit we call it blue collar
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i’ve got a facebook group called blue
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collar recruiting
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it’s we go live every thursday night at
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9 pm eastern
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and we talk about those those things to
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your point cody and the thing was it
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needs to be automated because we
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in our industries we hire quickly we
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have high turnover
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um it’s not like you know hiring a nurse
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that’s going to be around for 10 years
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and it takes forever to go find and
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qualify somebody we got to move fast
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if you have to move fast and in the in
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the power washing game it’s a hundred
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thousand dollars that one employee can
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bring in in revenue
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you don’t want to be waiting to get a
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power washer you need to so
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automation was probably the first thing
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that i wanted to dig into
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and then the other thing was how the
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hell do we pre-screen these people
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um properly and and i think i think
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there’s there’s three parts to it job
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description and application flow
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then there’s how do you screen it when
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you get all these applications coming in
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and how do you automate it because i
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don’t have all day to look through
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literally 500 to 1000
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resumes every day and that’s that’s the
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number one hurdle that all of our
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clients have
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when they’ve come to us is i don’t have
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time for this stuff
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um so you introduce automation into this
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cycle
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and that takes the a lot of the the
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like labor burden off of you to have to
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review all of these
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clients or all of these applicants
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yeah um what are
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so a lot of the things that i hear in
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recruiting and you probably have a way
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to weed this out there are a lot of
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people
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who will apply and like look good on
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paper and then
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don’t show up to the interview oh yeah
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the no
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shows yes yeah yeah do you have an
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explanation for these no shows what what
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i’m yeah i’m i’m very data driven i’m
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very
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like e-myth michael gerber stuff and
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uh so we’ve got some data behind that
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actually i i think
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it’s never going to stop or go away
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number one
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especially if you’re finding a employees
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because they’re smart people and they’re
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probably
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uh going to interview three or four
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different places so that’s tough
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so here’s the the data if somebody
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reaches out to you
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to set up an interview and you’ve
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already screened them and they’re ready
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to interview or you reach out to them
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if you do not set that interview up
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within 24 hours or less
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you’ve got a 60 seven percent chance
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that that’s going to be a no show
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the theory that they found something
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else
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yeah that they’ve already found
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something else or the boss has said hey
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you know what
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i i want to keep you i’ll give you that
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raise please just don’t go
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there’s you know so there’s a variety of
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things like that that happen um
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you know and you have to keep in mind
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you know
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when you’re out recruiting you see that
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pipeline and you see that person coming
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through
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but that person’s probably talked to
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three other business owners
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a week or two prior to you you know and
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maybe the boss
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the boss is struggling to figure out if
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they want to keep that person and give
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them
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that raise to stay and then the other
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piece of data
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to answer your question too is so let’s
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say that you do set up that interview
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within 24 hours or less and schedule it
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if you if you don’t
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um if if you don’t reach out
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and get back to them within 24 hours 67
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chance
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you’ve got another 23 chance
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if you don’t follow up and confirm it
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and our
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our philosophy on that has changed we
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used to say if they don’t show up to
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hell with them
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well it’s would you would you do that in
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marketing
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okay marketing you know again a client
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you you would you marketing and
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recruiting are so much the same it’s
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just
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it’s scary how how similar they are you
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wouldn’t do that in marketing so you
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you chase down prospects and you you
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give them an estimate you want to do
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business with them you chase them down a
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little bit until
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you better do that with an a player
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because they don’t last very long in
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this market
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absolutely so i mean it sounds like
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building
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an automated system solves a lot of the
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problems
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that that most service businesses run
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into in recruiting
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where so what is your like if we’re
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thinking about it in a marketing context
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what does your top of funnel look like
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for recruiting great question it’s very
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similar
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so you know we our funnel on the top
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is as big as the globe it’s huge i don’t
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care how many
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we hear this all the time i can i get a
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hundred applications from indeed and
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they all stink
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you know we hear that all the time and
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it’s true it is true
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but what tends to happen is we want this
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huge funnel on top
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um a big mistake that we used to do
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is we used to pre-screen in the job
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description
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and we found that to be a big no-no and
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here’s what would happen
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we would have something you know in
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general if you do this
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where you’re in trouble if you don’t do
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that you better do this
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they’re looking at this job description
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going there’s no way i want to apply to
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the
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so you you don’t want to you don’t want
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to pre-screen the living daylights out
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of them
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during the job description that’s a big
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mistake
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i don’t care if there’s 10 000
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applications
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as long as it’s automated our system
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will find two or three out of
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and the data is we’ll find about three
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to four
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out of every hundred to interview and
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then out of that we’ll probably
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um hire two wow yeah
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yeah so you definitely need to have
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something screening those applicants for
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you
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um yeah sure yeah uh so
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let’s look at those kind of window
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points in our funnel here
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so we’re trying to bring in as many
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people as possible we’re not trying to
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scare them off at the very beginning
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we’re reeling them in and then so you
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get
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a certain number of people fill out the
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application at that point they’ve
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converted to like so i work
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in digital marketing that’s my like
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whole job so i’m gonna continue talking
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about it in these terms
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so then we’re getting kind of our our
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middle of funnel where they’ve given us
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information
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and what is your criteria to flip
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someone from
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okay this was an applicant what what
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separates them to someone you want to
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interview sure um
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so once they get in as an applicant
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what we have set up is we’ve got very
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spec
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industry specific questions which is
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our online application and
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at the end of it about 23 start it never
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finish it because it
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does take a little bit of time and
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that’s okay we want people that are
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serious about the job
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and what happens is when they do our
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online application and hit submit
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it automatically gives us a score so
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when we start our day or we go in there
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at night there’s going to be a bunch
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of applicants and there’s going to be
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scores that are green yellow
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red and based on the way they answered
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the questions
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if they’re at a if they’re below our
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minimum criteria or a minimum score
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and this is in the middle of the funnel
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now they basically get an email that
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says thank you very much go away
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much more professional than that but
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that’s what it says yeah the ones that
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are above that
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we’re not done there we take them on and
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have them do an assessment a personality
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assessment so step one is
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industry specific questions and if they
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make it that
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and they pass that then they have to do
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personality assessments
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and they’re scored on that as well so we
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take a sort of a
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a combination type of score of that and
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we
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we then start to review the resume so
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there’s all these pre-screening
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um things that we do in the middle of
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the funnel before they drip down
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yeah so then it sounds like this this
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personality assessment that gets you
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that like composite score is what’s
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flipping to the final like to pull them
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into the bottom of the funnel
11:54
um so what i remember
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like taking some of these uh quizzes
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when i was
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you know like high school early college
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you know applying to work at
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bigger companies to do like retail or uh
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you know stuff like that like companies
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use those is this kind of the like
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like among retail workers they’re kind
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of known as the like you know would you
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steal
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quiz is that what we’re talking about or
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what does that look like
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a little bit i’ll give you the title of
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a few of them
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so there’s a couple personality
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assessments we use and like
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one is level of optimism how optimistic
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is the person
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integrity which touches on stealing and
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things of that nature
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um so we want honest people that are
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positive
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and we feel at that point we could
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pretty much mold anybody into being
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with training into being a good
12:45
technician or office manager or whatever
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it is but but we go further
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one of my favorites is emotional
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stability
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so so you know let’s face it we
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in most of the industries we touch on in
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our cleaning businesses
13:00
around the country our blue skies
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cleaning businesses you know we’re not
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hiring
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people that are making you know driving
13:07
porsches and have 50 grand in
13:08
their savings account those sort of
13:10
things we all have problems
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which is fine we want to make sure that
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you’re stable enough
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emotionally stable enough to come in and
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handle the stress of the job
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that’s really what that’s all about and
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then there’s a couple others
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that we use conscientious in other words
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you know do we have to babysit you
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uh that type of thing we don’t like
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babysitting employees once we get them
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trained
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so there’s a lot of that type of thing
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that we look for in those personality
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assessments
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and and if if you’ve got time and you
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want me to
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i can touch on some of those industry
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specific questions too i think
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those are really what what was that was
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a game changer for us oh
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yeah yeah let’s dive into those what’s
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going on with mike real quick
13:53
he sent me a message that he is locked
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out of the
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the tool that we’re using so he can see
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and hear us but he can’t get in for some
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reason
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uh so it would just be you and i sean
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we’ll carry the day no problem
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mike if you’re if you’re able to hear me
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text cody a question if you got any
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questions man
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so so let’s see we so we own some
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cleaning companies so one of the
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questions we ask
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um and i’ll give you two that you would
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think on the surface
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are reasonable things to be upset about
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and so we set the table
14:27
with these questions that we call the
14:29
three questions
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the three um um thing the things that
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would upset you the most if you got this
14:35
job
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and we have three choices you don’t come
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up with your own
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so you choose one two or three and we
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grade those so
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remember we score these automatically so
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depending on how the answer
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there’s going to be a really good answer
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that we score well an
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okay answer is average and a really poor
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answer
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so here’s one of the questions out of
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these three things what would upset you
14:56
the most
14:56
the worst answer is this
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there’s somebody that is always late to
15:03
work never on time and the owner or
15:05
manager never does a thing about it
15:07
okay on the surface that seems like
15:10
something very reasonable to be upset
15:11
about because you’re getting the kids
15:13
out the door you’re trying to get to
15:14
work and you’re never late and you
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really work hard not to be late
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reasonable okay let me
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spew the data on it um because
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once we get emotion out of this stuff we
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can we can really figure some things out
15:27
and the data at least for blue sky
15:29
services and most of our clients
15:31
is that that person the common
15:34
denominator without
15:36
with practically no exceptions is your
15:40
gossip king or queen or your drama
15:43
king and queen and if you think about it
15:45
i’m telling you
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i’m gonna be really upset depending on
15:49
what
15:50
somebody else either does or does not do
15:52
okay
15:53
thank you i’d rather you just come to
15:55
work and not worry about what fred’s
15:57
doing maybe maybe fred came to me
15:59
and as the owner of the business and
16:00
said hey i just found out some really
16:02
bad news about my son
16:04
you know he’s got this attention
16:05
disorder and i’ve got to go see a
16:07
psychiatrist with them every morning for
16:09
an hour
16:10
you know i’ve been here for a couple
16:11
years it won’t you know it’s only for a
16:13
month is
16:14
that okay boss well maybe maybe they
16:16
don’t want to announce that to everybody
16:17
in the office so just mind your business
16:19
come to work
16:20
so that’s a that’s a big deal another
16:22
one i love
16:23
and i’ll just have i’ll have one more
16:26
for you
16:26
and again on the surface it seems very
16:29
reasonable somebody would be upset about
16:30
it and it’s this one
16:32
the worst answer out of the three that
16:34
are going to upset you the most if you
16:36
get this job
16:37
my paycheck is off by twenty dollars my
16:40
paychecks off by twenty dollars
16:42
so you’re gonna tell me that you’re
16:43
gonna be upset about that and that’s
16:45
gonna really steam you over
16:46
if 20 bucks is now there’s two things
16:49
with that one is i never said that we
16:51
underpaid you
16:52
what if what if we overpaid you so the
16:54
mindset of somebody
16:56
okay that’s number one goes right to the
16:58
negative that that boss that owner that
17:00
company that if they pit the employee
17:04
in boss thing which which is a nightmare
17:06
but the other interesting thing about
17:08
that is
17:09
what i’ve what my gut sort of tell me
17:11
out of 20 some years of doing this
17:14
is that i am convinced that good
17:16
employees know they’re good employees
17:18
i am even more convinced that bad
17:20
employees know they’re bad employees
17:22
okay
17:23
what do we tell our good employees man
17:25
if i could clone you i love you here’s
17:26
to get to take your spouse out to dinner
17:28
on me you’re the best i love it
17:30
you all you know they hear good things
17:33
what do we tell bad employees
17:34
you know you know mrs jones is
17:36
complaining about her
17:38
windows or her lawn again what’s going
17:40
on you can’t be
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late all the time they hear that all not
17:43
just where they’re at today they’ve
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heard that all their lives probably
17:46
okay that’s what they hear so the
17:48
mindset
17:49
of a good employee their mind doesn’t go
17:52
to that answer because they know
17:54
they’re going to be taken care of that
17:55
might have been a mistake but they
17:57
know that they’re going to be taken care
17:59
of because if it happens with me
18:01
and my employees i’m taking money out of
18:03
my pocket called cash
18:04
and going here i got a 50 or a couple
18:06
20s i’m sorry i was 20 off it’ll never
18:09
happen again
18:10
okay if you’re a bad employee the
18:11
chances of me pulling money out of my
18:13
pocket
18:14
are pretty slim and none if i keep
18:16
wondering where you’re at why you’re not
18:17
showing up and you’re breaking things
18:19
all the time
18:20
okay i think that’s a reasonable thing
18:23
to to um you know to
18:26
think that that’s something to be upset
18:28
about but the data shows completely
18:30
different
18:31
yeah kind of looking at where where
18:33
their mind goes when they
18:35
see a and like a little bit of a vague
18:39
thing they can take in a positive way
18:42
[Music]
18:44
for what they’re going to do because
18:45
that’s how they’re going to handle
18:47
uh you know a normal problem that arises
18:50
and
18:51
you know what’s really cool about it one
18:52
of the biggest challenges
18:54
i had in developing the the system
18:58
and and most i think have or don’t think
19:00
about
19:01
is matching your culture
19:05
in your job description and all the way
19:07
through that
19:08
funnel that you you call the funnel and
19:10
and i think
19:11
some of these industry specific
19:13
questions lay that out and i’ll give you
19:15
another
19:15
another example of that and how you can
19:17
match culture which is huge
19:19
and that is most house cleaning
19:22
companies for example
19:24
don’t work on weekends don’t work nights
19:27
and and don’t work major holidays that’s
19:29
pretty much a commonality and a lot
19:32
hundreds of cleaning companies around
19:33
the country so one of the questions i’d
19:35
like to ask
19:36
is and and it’s advertised that you
19:38
don’t that’s a selling point you don’t
19:40
work weekends you know we’re yeah
19:42
and so what happens is i’d like to ask
19:43
the question um
19:46
which one of these three things would
19:47
upset you the most and the worst answer
19:49
is
19:49
i have to work five saturdays in a row
19:51
and i was told i didn’t have to work
19:53
weekends
19:54
and so our culture at least at blue
19:57
skies
19:58
is literally one of our core behaviors
20:00
is plow horse
20:01
we work like a plow horse do whatever it
20:03
takes to make that customer happy
20:05
in reasonable terms so i don’t like when
20:08
somebody says i can’t work on a saturday
20:10
um you know that bothers me it’s not
20:13
part of our
20:14
core behaviors it’s not part of our our
20:16
company culture at all
20:18
and that happens in lawn care companies
20:20
too when like normal they don’t work
20:22
saturdays but
20:23
you know it rained all week and we have
20:25
to yeah or we’re gonna you know
20:27
we’re not gonna make payroll if no one
20:29
pays us to mow their lawn
20:31
exactly yeah so what are kind of
20:34
to to wrap up here what are some of the
20:37
big
20:38
like aha moments that you wish you could
20:40
have given yourself
20:41
you know three years sooner
20:44
um i i think
20:48
probably
20:52
being very careful on the job
20:54
description is
20:55
is probably the one that really was a
20:57
big change for us
20:59
because like i said there we were we
21:01
were really screening people pretty hard
21:03
in the job description
21:05
and when i when you read back through
21:07
some of the things we used to do
21:09
i wouldn’t let my daughter apply for a
21:11
job with us
21:13
you know there was just two it was too
21:15
negative it was too
21:16
um you better do this you better not do
21:18
that and it’s like you know
21:20
um it just it just wasn’t good the other
21:24
thing and i’ll give it this is this was
21:26
huge and i recommend this for everybody
21:28
out there listening
21:30
on the what we did was once we did hire
21:33
somebody
21:34
okay one of the things that we did
21:37
was we knew a new person would come in
21:39
on their first day
21:41
we actually had somebody waiting by the
21:43
door for that person
21:45
and when they noticed that person
21:46
driving into the parking lot they were
21:48
to run out by the car
21:50
with a big smile so you we would find
21:53
the the most
21:54
you know positive human being that would
21:57
love that
21:58
type of job and it’s sort of a fun goofy
22:00
thing if you let it be
22:02
so that personality that person runs out
22:04
there the first thing they see on the
22:06
first day of their job
22:07
is this smiling son of a gun sitting
22:10
there can’t wait to meet you you already
22:12
know their name don’t ask them their
22:14
name
22:14
hi michelle my name’s joanne nice to
22:16
meet you we can’t we’ve been waiting for
22:18
you we can’t wait to see you
22:20
we got either coffee or juice for you
22:22
we’ve got donuts bagels or fruit
22:23
whatever you want
22:24
that’s what somebody wants to hear on
22:26
their first day what
22:28
typically happens and what was happening
22:30
prior to that was
22:31
and well how much does that cost by the
22:32
way about nothing
22:34
yeah a little bit of breakfast you know
22:36
that’s nothing so
22:38
what one of the things we used to do is
22:39
somebody would come in there’d be three
22:41
people outside smoking a cigarette going
22:43
man like this monday suck i can’t say it
22:46
i can’t believe mrs jones she saw you
22:49
that’s what they hear
22:50
that’s what they hear on their first day
22:51
of work um they’re not gonna last a long
22:53
time
22:54
yeah and it’s it doesn’t cost you
22:57
anything it really doesn’t
22:58
yeah well sean thank you
23:01
so much for joining us today mike
23:04
usually does
23:05
the the wrap up so we are
23:08
this will be up on spotify and other
23:11
podcast
23:11
apps uh here in the next couple of days
23:14
if you want to re-listen
23:16
um or if you want to subscribe so you
23:17
can listen in the car to future episodes
23:20
um yeah we’re back every friday
23:24
at noon central i’m not going to try to
23:26
do the other time zones because i will
23:28
mess them up
23:29
um but sean thanks so much for helping
23:32
us out today
23:33
and uh just to remind people where can
23:35
they find you online
23:37
sure the best way to do it is um
23:40
is probably just to message me on
23:42
facebook um
23:44
if not there you can go to
23:47
yourblueskies.com
23:49
your blue skies dot com
23:53
but facebook’s the easy way if you look
23:55
up blue collar recruiting
23:57
we’ve got a uh facebook live every
23:59
thursday night
24:01
we’ve got about 600 members in the group
24:03
we usually get about 3 000 views
24:04
something like that
24:05
9 p.m eastern time every thursday night
24:08
we have a facebook live going on
24:10
and i’ll be more than happy to talk shop
24:12
with anybody out there
24:14
we do have a recruiting service we can
24:17
give you a demo of how we can help you
24:19
uh 15-minute demo but i i’m more than
24:22
happy to answer any questions i’ve been
24:23
doing this long enough i don’t
24:25
hard sell a thing if you want to use
24:27
this that’s fine if not
24:28
i love talking shop i’ll help you in any
24:30
way i can awesome
24:32
sean thanks so much all right cody take
24:34
good care have a good weekend now bud
24:36
you too all right bye-bye
24:42
now we’re waiting for mike to disconnect
24:44
us
24:46
[Music]
24:54
i’m gonna click off yeah go ahead and
24:56
click off all right bob take good care
24:58
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